LITMIR.BIZ

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Why?

      Needleman: Because I wish for something.

      KRISHNAMURTI: No. Why is there this cult of effort? Why have I to make effort to reach God, enlightenment, truth?

      Needleman: There are many possible answers, but I can only answer for myself.

      KRISHNAMURTI: It may be just there, only I don’t know how to look.

      Needleman: But then there must be an obstacle.

      KRISHNAMURTI: How to look! It may be just round the corner, under the flower, it may be anywhere. So first I have to learn to look, not make an effort to look. I must find out what it means to look.

      Needleman: Yes, but don’t you admit that there may be a resistance to that looking?

      KRISHNAMURTI: Then don’t bother to look! If somebody comes along and says, “I don’t want to look”, how are you going to force him to look?

      Needleman: No. I am speaking about myself now. I want to look.

      KRISHNAMURTI: If you want to look, what do you mean by looking? You must find out what it means to look before you make an effort to look. Right, Sir?

      Needleman: That would be, to me, an effort.

      KRISHNAMURTI: No.

      Needleman: To do it in that delicate, subtle way. I wish to look, but I don’t wish to find out what it means to look. I agree this is much more to me the basic thing. But this wish to do it quickly, to get it over, is this not resistance?

      KRISHNAMURTI: Quick medicine to get it over.

      Needleman: Is there something in me that I have to study, that resists this subtle, much more delicate thing you are speaking about? Is this not work, what you are saying? Isn’t it work to ask the question so quietly, so subtly? It seems to me it is work to not listen to that part that wants to do it . . .

      KRISHNAMURTI: Quickly.

      Needleman: For us particularly in the West, or maybe for all men.

      KRISHNAMURTI: I am afraid it is all over the world the same. “Tell me how to get there quickly.”

      Needleman: And yet you say it is in a moment.

      KRISHNAMURTI: It is, obviously.

      Needleman: Yes, I understand.

      KRISHNAMURTI: Sir, what is effort? To get out of bed in the morning, when you don’t want to get up, is an effort. What brings on that laziness? Lack of sleep, over-eating, over-indulging and all the rest of it; and next morning you say, “Oh, what a bore, I have to get up!” Now wait a minute, Sir, follow it. What is laziness? Is it physical laziness, or is thought itself lazy?

      Needleman: That I don’t understand. I need another word. “Thought is lazy?” I find that thought is always the same.

      KRISHNAMURTI: No Sir. I am lazy, I don’t want to get up and so I force myself to get up. In that is so-called effort.

      Needleman: Yes.

      KRISHNAMURTI: I want that, but I shouldn’t have it, I resist it. The resistance is effort. I get angry and I mustn’t be angry: resistance, effort. What has made me lazy?

      Needleman: The thought that I ought to be getting up.

      KRISHNAMURTI: That’s it.

      Needleman: All right.

      KRISHNAMURTI: So I really have to go into this whole question of thought. Not make out that the body is lazy, force the body out of bed, because the body has its own intelligence, it knows when it is tired and should rest. This morning I was tired; I had prepared the mat and everything to do yoga exercises and the body said “No, sorry”. And I said, “All right”. That is not laziness. The body said, “Leave me alone because you talked yesterday, you saw many people, you are tired.” Thought then says, “You must get up and do the exercises because it is good for you, you have done it every day, it has become a habit, don’t relax, you will get lazy, keep at it.” Which means: thought is making me lazy, not the body is making me lazy.

      Needleman: I understand that. So there is an effort with regard to thought.

      KRISHNAMURTI: So no effort! Why is thought so mechanical? And is all thought mechanical?

      Needleman: Yes, all right, one puts that question.

      KRISHNAMURTI: Isn’t it?

      Needleman: I can’t say that I have verified that.

      KRISHNAMURTI: But we can, Sir. That is fairly simple to see. Isn’t all thought mechanical? The non-mechanical state is the absence of thought; not the neglect of thought but the absence of it.

      Needleman: How can I find that out?

      KRISHNAMURTI: Do it now, it is simple enough. You can do it now if you wish to. Thought is mechanical.

      Needleman: Let’s assume that.

      KRISHNAMURTI: Not assume. Don’t assume anything.

      Needleman: All right.

      KRISHNAMURTI: Thought is mechanical, isn’t it?—because it is repetitive, conforming, comparing.

      Needleman: That part I see, the comparing. But my experience is that not all thought is of the same quality. There are qualities of thought.

      KRISHNAMURTI: Are there?

      Needleman: In my experience there are.

      KRISHNAMURTI: Let’s find out. What is thought, thinking?

      Needleman: There seems to be thought that is very shallow, very repetitive, very mechanical, it has a certain taste to it. There seems to be another kind of thought which is connected more with my body, with my whole self, it resonates in another way.

      KRISHNAMURTI: That is what, Sir? Thought is the response of memory.

      Needleman: All right, this is a definition.

      KRISHNAMURTI: No, no, I can see it in myself. I have to go to that house this evening—the memory, the distance, the design—all that is memory, isn’t it?

      Needleman: Yes, that is memory.

      KRISHNAMURTI: I have been there before and so the memory is well established and from that there is either instant thought, or thought which takes a little time. So I am asking myself: is all thought similar, mechanical, or is there thought which is non-mechanical, which is non-verbal?

      Needleman: Yes, that’s right.

      KRISHNAMURTI: Is there thought if there is no word?

      Needleman: There is understanding.

      KRISHNAMURTI: Wait, Sir. How does this understanding take place? Does it happen when thought is functioning rapidly, or when thought is quiet?

      Needleman: When thought is quiet, yes.

      KRISHNAMURTI: Understanding is nothing to do with thought. You may reason, which is the process of thinking, logic, till you say, “I don’t understand it”; then you become silent, and you say, “Ah! I see it, I understand it.” That understanding is not a result of thought.

      Needleman: You speak of an energy which seems to be uncaused. We experience the energy of cause and effect, which shapes our lives, but what is this other energy’s relationship to the energy we are familiar with? What is energy?

      KRISHNAMURTI: First of all: is energy divisible?

      Needleman: I don’t know. Go on.

      KRISHNAMURTI: It can be divided. Physical energy, the energy of anger and so on, cosmic energy, human energy, it can all be divided. But it is all one energy, isn’t it?

      Needleman: Logically, I say yes. I don’t understand energy. Sometimes

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